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Stu And Shaz's Dart Room

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Stu    426

i was advised that they were extremely shy wheras imi banded very bold ,be interesting to know your view on this Stu re shyness ? Stunning looking frogs and i obviously glad someone doing their best to breed them .

it's a bit like auratus i think Ty,all individuals,my male much shyer than my female,but after a goodly while of having this old sod talk to him tell himwhen luch is on the cards,yeah he knows who we are,he's say waiting to be fed,sure a bit back,but if I give him time he wil come out and feed under my nose with the door open. Some report very shy though.

 

Ty for months now I've pondered writing up some insanity about talking to frogs,getting them to know us ,stockmas banter and all that,I guess most would think me mad,my best friends whom know me and have done for years,know I'm mad,call me Dr stulittle (bastards),but they also see where the in sanity leads.

 

It's incredibly important to me to make our frogs comfortable with us,this alivates stress,make our chores easier  because they are relaxed.  It takes time and a certain madness to quietly sit talking to a bloody frog,but it's a corner stone to me of animal care,take the stress out because they know you won't harm them,and then you see what happens next.  Yes I do know it's a bloody frog,but we both know there is more in that little head than we both thought possible.  anyone  who keeps darts and looks hard at some point get this. They are bright little chaps for a frog,maybe parental care,who knows,but they can work some stuff, which means we can make a shy frog bolder,it's just making him sure of us,only one  way to do that time spent with him!!

 

best

 

Stu

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dendros    74

Only a few months ago Stu i was playing you tube video clips of redheads calling to mine ,if anyone had seen me with laptop belting out frog chorus stood next to vivs i think they would call me insane but guess what after several attemps over and over 1 mine called back ,i was over moon and worth every minute and im sure they know 1 person from another,the 1 who sprays and feeds them lol.

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Stu    426

Thanks for that Stu. So really, after I have read that link, I would only be advised to buy from an honest source as you have done with RitchieB.

 

thanks

 

Gordon

Absolutely I trust Richie 100%,but it's almost further than that if Richie hasn't bred the frog Gordon  it 's UE too .  I'll repeat Richie has backed  us much like you have buddy for bloody years,chucked ideas at us,always try this mate,it might work for you never  you must do this. He has always been straight with me and honest,I have huge admiration for him.  But we can't all know every nuance of every species. Those frogs(summersi that were imis) that came here came from another source,but he was mislead by another party.Gordon I saw the whole thing. So anyone here ,almost could get these buggers mixed up.  So in this case it's not just the guy bringing us the frogs it's being certain of liniage as virtually anyone could get these mixed up as immature frogs

 

      There are some folks out there whom would deliberately or accidentally do this,get a morph or even a species mixed up,it's happened to me personally. A genuine mistake,but it happens,I was just lucky,that at the time I bought my camo auratus I was talking to a dutch guy,who was an auratus specialiist  no one here knew,ok one guy did,I caught him later. My dutch friend said lovely frogs Stu.but I have to be honest with you they are not camos,I went back and traced the source,just an accident,superblues or blue on bronze they are,but def not camo.

 

It's really hard Gordon becuase I don't think it's fair to expect anyone to know 190species of darts and each and every morph there of,so sometimes someone pulls a fast one for bucks and sometimes real genuine mistakes are happening,which none of us really are aware of,even guys doing this for years and years

 

then all we have is trust

 

take care mate

 

Stu

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Meefloaf    84

i need to talk to mine more i must say. After seeing Stu and his, it wasnt their curiosity in those weird creatures looking at me. Stu's attachibakka kids were all loving hearing him talking ot them, he even talked his "camo" auratus female into coming to have a chat (with some food and words of encouragement). Honestly, when Stu goes in there, it's almost like they all want to know whats going onand whose comes to see them lol, Mysties are bold as brass, one of stu's sauntered out after having his way with three females in a film cannister, strutted around calling like a proud peacock lol. and i must say mine look at me and respond to talking too (they must think we are mad)

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Stu    426

Thanks Joe seeing is believing huh.

 

   I know it's bonkers mate,but the flip side is very serious,stress is the biggest worry for us. A frogs system gets thrown out of kilter parasites that shouldn't be a problem become one,etc etc.   Getting them to know us and relax around us means we can alleviate all this.

 

Hell on top of that it's nice to see the frogs we keep and have them almost come out on demand,one can also factor in one would then see more natural behaviour,as the frogs aren't worried by us,they just go on about their lives.  It's a lovely thing mate I started learning this before the age of 8,that's when a wild bird first trusted me. I apply it to all animals we keep, for me it's almost therapy I suppose,what's better than walking into a frog room saying hey guys and little faces appearing,that are never going to mess with me.

 

Joe thanks for the reply,,folks tell me they like the set up and we are ok at this,ya know the lovely kind words that fox me. But talking about something like this madness would leave many scratching their collective heads.But as above stockman's banter is a cornerstone to my keeping,as important as viv design and culturing in many ways. Having a stranger to our frogs,ok with Paula a couple of strangers to them able to see it in action  adds weight to my musings on this.

 

    Look if everyone thinks I'm mad,cool I can live with that !!But if one or two  more folks get this because of your backup,not just me rabbiting on  but someone not known to the frogs seeing it  first hand,then hell it's worth pondering this.

 

thanks bro B)

 

Stu

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Smug    63

Many animals use some of our senses much better than we do so this all adds up and makes perfect sense. My other half says I am a good judge of character when meeting new people and this is down to my instincts more than my observations. We have lost touch with many of our instincts with the complexity of modern human life but simple things like sitting with a creature and it taking you as one of its own are back to the basics of fear, care and the most basic of all instincts that seem to be within most living things.

 

I always remember wanting to see every creature I could in our garden at home growing up so I would run about trashing the flower beds looking for it all and would always find the same old spiders and woodlice but when I was told to sit and just watch the whole word and my thinking changed, creatures I have never seen turned up and birds arrived, even slow worms sometimes. A simple change to become part of the chain and not a threat to anything changed forever how much of nature I could then interact with.

 

This is getting a little bit deep so I will stop now but I totally agree that interaction on a very simple level with any creature calms both parties and allows you to see their world on a whole new level way beyond what you thought you might see. :)

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Stu    426

A wonderful eloquent post Paul,getting across my point in a slightly different way.  thankyou for this Kiddo.  There are many facets to this hobby that are very difficult to convey in words and photographs, until someone sees it in the flesh.  They range from a really good springtail culture/ iso culture to the depth of a viv. This quiet stockmans banter falls in with those in my eyes..  It's a constant amazement that these little frogs have so much more than I thought possible,going on in their heads.

 

What all this really draws home to me,is how important it can be for a new guy to try and find a more experienced keeper and go  and spend some time with him/her just generally looking and talking about all this.  We had Joe and Dane here recently. I've been talking to both for a good while now,musing froggy stuff,they both read my room thread so are pretty familiar with our set up and see pics of it all.  But i'm fairly sure they both took away things from coming here that I have been unable to convey via this media. Sure partially my inadaquacies in communication are a factor,but it's more than that. 

 

Cheers

 

Stu

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gouldianmax    406

Stu I think any newbie should make it his number one priority to visit one or more experienced frogkeepers to pick their brains face to face and view their set ups with their own eyes. I spent two or more years reading up and visiting as many people as i could before i bought any dartfrogs. I then spent another 18 months designing and building my frogroom after visiting friends who kept all manner of reptiles and amphibians and fish etc. with a note pad. I can remember visiting Paul Hards who kept dartfrogs but was a very experienced fishkeeper and I picked up lots of tips from him on many issues i was not sure of. He told me to make sure i had as much insulation in my frogroom as possible to keep the heating bills down ( so i put 150mmthick kingspan insulation undr the floor , in the roof and walls ), he also told me to ensure i fitted drainage into the main draind for all of my vivs and a sink with hot and cold water which i did. those tips have saved me a lot of hassle and money over the years and it has paid for itself many times over now.

 

regards

 

Gordon

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Stu    426

I completely agree Gordon and my huge thanks for the post.   Getting new guys of to a flier  means they have far more chance of success and hence swell our numbers. Plus as you say the choices we make on room design can save us not only problems later,but also money.

 

Oh Gordon I haven't spoken to Paul or seen him about much of late,is he still keeping and ok?

 

many thanks

 

Stu

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gouldianmax    406

Thanks Stu. I need to catch up with Paul. He has sold all of his frogs and is concentrating on fish only. I need to catch up with him but life is a whirlwind at present.

 

regards

 

Gordon

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Stu    426

Ahh that's a shame,great keeper!!  But I'm glad all is well for him,yes whirlwind is a good word,same here!!

 

best

 

Stu

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Stu    426

Sorry  about the two pics that didn't come out the site won't let me edit my mistakes

 

best

 

Stu

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Stu    426

No Joe we haven't i'm guessing a pum,but if not that looks oophaga,but you have me stumped mate go on hit me B)

 

Stu

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Stu    426

are they available over here ?

Sorry kiddo didn't see this,I'd ask Richie B if you haven't already. Richie has to be the first call on pums here,ha both as a breeder and someone whom would know what is available .

 

A couple of tiny RFB kids one from an earlier clutch

 

13936489986_d979499304_c.jpg

 

13956458041_36c44dd114_c.jpg

 

Bo...female basti

 

13979513413_5969fe16ca_c.jpg

 

Fab little tropical liverwort believed to be from Hawaii possibly from the genus Riccardia

 

13959930774_6258e22d88_c.jpg

 

If this continues to preform like it has so far,I've finely found the "moss" I've wanted for so long, just a bit more work to perfect growing,but I'm getting there and it's thriving where i've transplanted to viv

 

seeya

 

Stu

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jaize    176

Stu,

Hiya, it's noobie jaize here.

 

Just a quick note to say that talking to your frogs has a high possibility of relaxing them. Or at least give them something to feel familiar with. I have a book called "The Biology and Evolution of Language" that talks about studies in the response of frogs to various sounds to see if they could actually identify mating calls from other similar sounds and it appears that they respond to sounds that have as close as possible frequencies to the sounds produced by the frogs in question. Basically the neural mechanisms that deal with speech in humans is just a more evolved form of the ones that a frog has to determine mating calls. In short, the brain bit of noise making matches the noise making bit (larynx) in a similar way in lots of animals. In fact, virtually all terrestrial, air-breathing animals apart from insects have very similar structure if you compare the relevant part of the brain to the noise an animal makes. 
So, in conclusion, the frogs recognise you chatting to them as a frequency pattern and (good old Pavlov) associate that pattern with grub turning up and other, not threatening bits and bobs.

The scientist in me says it would be too hard to actually prove it with certainty but the biological evidence says that your thoughts on the subject are probably correct.  :D

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Stu    426

Stu,

 

Hiya, it's noobie jaize here.

 

Just a quick note to say that talking to your frogs has a high possibility of relaxing them. Or at least give them something to feel familiar with. I have a book called "The Biology and Evolution of Language" that talks about studies in the response of frogs to various sounds to see if they could actually identify mating calls from other similar sounds and it appears that they respond to sounds that have as close as possible frequencies to the sounds produced by the frogs in question. Basically the neural mechanisms that deal with speech in humans is just a more evolved form of the ones that a frog has to determine mating calls. In short, the brain bit of noise making matches the noise making bit (larynx) in a similar way in lots of animals. In fact, virtually all terrestrial, air-breathing animals apart from insects have very similar structure if you compare the relevant part of the brain to the noise an animal makes. 

So, in conclusion, the frogs recognise you chatting to them as a frequency pattern and (good old Pavlov) associate that pattern with grub turning up and other, not threatening bits and bobs.

 

The scientist in me says it would be too hard to actually prove it with certainty but the biological evidence says that your thoughts on the subject are probably correct.  :D

Hey Jaize,ha Pavlov,somewhere in the dim and distant past,I was taught about him,it was almost seminal for this little kid,he demonstrated what I'd already stumbled on,that by repetition one could affect other beings living on our planet. Sure it was mainly applied to birds back them. Jaize it's amazing to me that darts get this too. There is some irony that you posted this tonight: earlier we were going through the "dinner time" routine. shaz feeds all the flies,I feed all the springtails,it avoids cross contamination of mites. So she is sat near to tads as we go through all the kids,i'm scrubbling about under racks pulling springs out,moving tubs,all the while this quiet banter,going on.She suddenly stops me,"look at the tads they are all going nuts,they think you are going to feed them". Jaize it's a tadpole,I'm doubly sure I can't prove it,frankly it's bewildering. But it's there,to me  tangible behaviour, that can be witnesssed and harnessed,for both parties. I had the utter joy of seeing something very very special akin to this a few days ago,maybe I'll share that another time ;)

 

Mantas...BO?  If so, this is the cemetery morph from bastimentos. The one that has many colours.:polymorphic. There are several morphs on bastimentos...salt creak,red frog beach and more possibly (mitimbi springs to mind,but I might be mistaken),thanks,it's her eye isn't it 

 

Stu

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Meefloaf    84

i can confirm that tonight i said "hello tinc, dinner time" to which he hopped up from staring at me and onto his bit of cork and waited for me to knock some flies in for him. that guy is ace, even if he has a species complex lol also stu, i nicked your tone of voice when doing this

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