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auratusross

Bri Bri Breeding

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auratusross    126

In June i bought a sexed pair of Bri Bri that started to breed almost straight away and since then haven't stopped. The first two froglets came out of the water on 10th and 19th of September. Then on the 29th of September i noticed another clutch of eggs and an older clutch that were already tadpoles ready to be transported. After noticing the tadpoles of the older clutch had been transported i was unsure as to whether or not the "new" eggs would also be transported and or fed. I did manage to see the female carrying one of the newest clutch but she didnt transport them all. Possibly because she didnt find enough suitable spots for them or she knew she couldnt feed so many or maybe another reason im unsure.

 

On sunday i was lucky enough to see the female going from brom to brom "checking" on each tadpole/froglet. I knew where 2 were already as i could see they had their front legs and were ready to leave the water, she would stare at these froglets then move along to the next, as she got to the 1 brom axil she stared in and then turned around and laid some unfertilized eggs for a tadpole i didnt know about (i could see the tad moving in the water and around 4 eggs after she moved) presumably this is from the newest clutch of eggs.

 

Yesterday i had a froglet leave the water and the other i knew about left today. BUT to my surprise i also found a clutch of eggs today!! Now this has me wondering if she will continue to feed the last tadpole or maybe she has judged it will no longer need feeding (there may be more but i only know to this one for certain)

 

I have also seen a couple posts in the past that people have noticed their pumilio seem to be able to judge to the day!! that they will no longer need to feed because the tads they have are leaving the water and lay another clutch of eggs! Does anyone know to any links or info on this happening in the wild, or is it because the conditions are right and there is a constant food supply and partner etc there ready in a viv?

 

I am curious to any info on this, as i certainly dont want to put her under any stress whatsoever with the constant breeding that may not happen naturally in the wild?

 

Leaving the water yesterday

2014-12-01192657_zpsac66d4f9.jpg

 

Todays clutch

20141202_191515_zpse2b6f0fb.jpg

 

One of my older froglets

2014-12-02201753_zpsb05ad314.jpg

 

All opinions welcome, Ross

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Dar    307

My Valle de agua are the same, when you see a tad colouring up in a test tube then I usually find a fresh clutch.

I find it quite amazing how they do it really :)

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auratusross    126

Yeah its certainly no coincidence, this seems to be happening pretty often in captivity. Im just wondering how often this would happen in the wild and how it may affect the adults health or even the health of the young if not.

 

As im unsure if this is a natural thing and they will stop when they want to, or if they would breed as much as possible in the wild whilst conditions are right? and with condition always "right" in a vivarium it will have an ill affect on their health in some way? 

 

I know i could spray less, let the tank dry out more or even separate them etc but before changing things i would like to find out more on their natural behaviors on this, as i seem to have it "right" at the minute with them. I will also try to find out more about whether they have any type of dry period in costa rica or if its pretty much the same year round, that may affect the breeding in the wild. 

 

Its not like they are pumping out froglets by the hundred but certainly regularly enough to get me thinking!

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Stu    426

Lads I see the same,plus with the redheads too,perfect timing,it's quite something.  

 

       Ross i'm in no way mastered this,but I have general thoughts that most of us feed too much and the fat reserves carried by the females are responsible,for much. more breeding,than they would do in the wild. Most of us also rear in viv,which means one eye is on the kids making sure they have enough grub. For me stopping them has been really difficult,very tricky to get right. For sure I think implimenting a dry season and stopping them is beneficial to the frogs. But actually timing all this when the frogs pre empt the tads leaving the water and lay again isn't easy at all.  I guess personally I end  up pulling eggs,in most cases, (if I can find them) binning those and pulling back both food and humidity as a means to an end. It's a bloody art form this one,especially with new kids in viv,so I can't really be clearer for you as to a concrete method. But I really do think the frogs need these breaks,for their long term well being. I agree they are not producing lots of froglets,but for me it's the number of eggs they lay to rear each and every one ,that concerns me. 

 

Mate you can actually find out quite a lot of data about rainfall,temps, uv indexes by searching weather sites,for the areas where your particular frogs come from,worth doing some digging kiddo I've just done a quick search,by no means comprehensive and grabbed this. Most of the info I find is actually related through tourism sites,but it helps give a broad picture of what the frogs might be experiencing,in the wild

 

http://www.weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Rainfall-Temperature-Sunshine-in-Costa-Rica

 

take care

 

Stu

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auratusross    126

Yeah i was thinking of doing a similar thing if she laid again. Where i would try giving a "dry season" but always making sure the broms are topped up for the tads. Just keeping the rest of the viv drier to have her think its the end of the rainy season whilst she raises the tads and see if that works so she wouldnt lay again like clockwork.

 

Cheers for the link mate appreciated. When i get more time im gunna write down and keep a record of as much info i can on each species i keeps natural weather sytems to try and replicate this in some way in captivity. If only to the point of more misting in certain months. I think this will be a lot easier said than done to any accuracy tho.

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Stu    426

Bro our combined problem is knowing where that tad is and how much juice it has,plus the humidity that the broms give out in a viv designed to hold this. Ross don't just think humidity though, think food too. If it goes bloody dry in a rainforest,is food reduced. Do our frogs suddenly go invisible while they hunker down and whether the storm,metaphorically speaking of course,I mean how do they deal with the dry? what I'm trying to say I guees is that these frogs do not have a single stable habitat,where it is always humid,where food is always there,there is more. Certain species leucs are documented to eastivate, show me a leuc keeper how does this.

 

Essentially the dilemma is this,should we always keep our frogs,all species mate,in those best possible conditions,we would all aspire to naturally cause we love 'em and want the best for 'em. Or  we actually be kinder ,by replicating nature somewhat,and giving them a bit of hardship,which no doubt is what natures throws at them. Ha if one takes the former,one only has one option,ie, to split,But, if one takes the latter,that replicates nature,that means,well maybe some harder times for the frogs we care so much for. But may I be so bold as to state this is  what they adapted to over thousands of years ?

 

Ross this messes with me I want the best for 'em you do too,when I envoke less food and less water upon them it messes with me,but beyond that is the big picture,it is this thought process I am trying to convey.  Ask me how to stop mysties mate,the easy way is to split,the real way, I'll ponder, is somewhat different. I don't know the right way,closing of 4 years now I am unsure what is best,if I told you my plants fall over,I spray once a week,would you be shocked? Frogs get fed close to that that level still shocked??

 

    Ross I'm always unsure, that wont change :D ,but humidity and  food are your players. Work 'em mate,delve into how they effect what comes next,and how the real wild world works, that is exactly what you are doing good stuff bro.

 

but as always no answers just the pondering

 

best

 

Stu

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auratusross    126

I saw my female feed a tad only two days before she laid another clutch of eggs, and that tad came out of the water 6 days after i saw her last feed it. Presuming that was the last time she fed any tads thats 2 days for the eggs to develop, her to find a mate, suitable spot to lay, get enough food to be able to develop the eggs etc My male always calls so im wondering how much that effects or even pressures her into laying again. Ive read (not witnessed it myself) that they can feed every couple of days, but am i correct in thinking they do not have the clear jelly on the feeder eggs? If so im wondering if they are aborted early and used as feeder eggs before it develops or if they are completely different in there make up.  The reason i bring it up is because 2 days seems a small amount of time to go from feeder eggs to laying a clutch of 7 (4 out of the 7 were fertile) if they are different. Its not like we are all pulling eggs and getting clutches again 2 days later in all our other frogs. Also the fact only 4 developed compared to all in her previous clutches (except her first ever 1 where none were fertile) tells me its not a good thing or at least something wasnt quite right this time.

 

As for trying to replicate their natural habitat as close to conditions as possible then im certainly aiming towards that as best i can. Whether we think something is a negative for example dryer vivs or less food for periods of time then so be it, like you say its what they will have adapted to!! Maybe its not as negative as we think by maybe giving them time to recover from breeding activity etc there will always be times of abundance and hardships in all walks of life so the frogs are no different. 

 

The fact most people in this hobby want "a slice of nature" in their home and want to keep things as close to nature as possible, whether its frogs genetics or the conditions they live in is a major reason i enjoy it so much! People paying hundreds if not thousands of pounds on snakes to put in what is basically a drawer they cant see in, and keeping them on newspaper just baffles me!!

 

Just a few thoughts mate, Ross

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auratusross    126

An update on the last clutch off eggs.

 

I got home today to find one of the tadpoles deposited from the last clutch in a film canister for the first time.They have always used broms, but i have been keeping things a little drier lately and haven't been deliberately targeting the broms for top ups of water when spraying the vivs, so im guessing this is the reason she has used a canister for the first time, as they always have a high amount of water in them. 

 

I deliberately place the canisters facing forwards just encase if there ever was eggs or tads in them i can watch them grow, so im pleased im going to get to see this tad grow all the way through metamorphosis with a clear view, if all goes well.

 

What i also found was at least 12 feeder eggs!! along with with the tad in the canister. Im guessing she recons it was hungry!! I only thought they laid a small number of feeder eggs at a time!

 

Just a few observations... I saw the male checking out the same canister which now has the tad now in, yesterday (he usually has no interest in it whatsoever) and was sitting in the water slightly but not calling. Maybe checking if its suitable or even depositing im unsure maybe just coincidence but i never see him around it usually. The viv is slightly drier than usual but far from dry by any means! but i suppose he may of wanted to re-hydrate in some way. Also i saw the female staring at the clutch of eggs with tads ready to be transported for about 10 minutes before lights out last night. Not sure if she stayed there after that.

 

Heres some pics of what i found today

 

http://20141217_172758-1_zps237d917c.jpg

 

http://20141217_172813_zpse063e887.jpg

 

I will post the progress of this tadpole as it develops. Cheers, Ross

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